Here are the court details and the story behind it all..
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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UK- Watchtower is in court TODAY, is anyone able to attend and tell us what happened?
by defender of truth inhere are the court details and the story behind it all... man suing watchtower for disfellowshipping/defamation.
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KH 1st timer, could use some advice
by rathernotsay inhey people, .
i am soon going into a kh for the first time and i could use some advice around etiquette etc.
i know next to nothing besides the fundamental beliefs of jws, i personally dont believe in any religion, and that stance isnt ever going to change, however i don't want to come across as rude or disrespectful.
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defender of truth
Hi rathernotsay.
If you wanted to watch a documentary about life as a jw and the effects of it, this one by an exjw has received plenty of good feedback. Of course, there may be a good one elsewhere that is free.
http://buy.hereliesthetruth.com/#about
Anyway, here's one recent example of some of the 'encouraging' statements that your kids hear at meetings..
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defender of truth
More exposure for the ABC news article. And this quote from the 'About Us' section gives an idea of how much exposure, potentially.
“WND is an independent news company dedicated to uncompromising journalism...WND consistently ranks as the 'stickiest' news site on the Internet, meaning readers spent more time on it than on any other – including giants CNN, MSNBC and ESPN.WND often ranks at the top of the news pack in number of pageviews per user and minutes per page – two other important categories measured by Internet ratings agencies.
It is a Top 500 website, according to Alexa.com, the search and ratings agency affiliate of Amazon.com, and the No. 1 independent news site.WND currently attracts nearly 5 million unique visitors a month and more than 40 million pageviews, according to its own internal monitoring software."
WND repost of Abc article -
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Anybody know what happened in this lawsuit, Frank Otuo suing the WT of Britain and an elder for defamation?
by AndersonsInfo inthis lawsuit was discussed on jwn five months ago: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/284881/brave-ex-elder-sues-over-defamation-over-fraud-claims?size=20&page=2 .
anybody know what the present disposition is in this case?.
the following link is to the actual newspaper article: .
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defender of truth
Barbara, important PM for you, if you're reading this.. -
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Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
Prologos said the following:
"re animal suffering: in the natural world, In predation, the animal would be dead before the numbing effect of the hormones that are triggered by terror wear off."How would you explain the injustice of allowing countless species to go extinct?
"In all my terror moments, falling 18 feet at age 80, going under a truck with my motorcycle at age 20, even cutting my leg with a saw, and so on, I never felt any initial pain."
Not all animals are killed instantly.
You have only offered a defense for a 'quick kill' scenario.
"The question of the cancerous dog, in the natural world it would be quickly identified and devoured because of it's weakness, before chronic pain would set in."
That is a weak excuse.
If we were to kill everyone with incurable cancer, as soon as they were diagnosed so they did not suffer, would that be a just and loving solution? Especially if you had the power to cure them.
Bear in mind the animal has no choice in the matter.
"Seconds of terror possibly painless,-- to pay for years of joy? a fair bargain."
Many animals do not even get years to live.
Possibly painless?
Depends on the scenario. -
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Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
Excellent points, Cofty and Viviane.
With regard to Fisherman, let's clear a few things up and then focus on the topic...
'Does not make my money grow' is referring to his oh-so-clever story, he means that reality is as it is, nobody's views, opinions, or comments can change that.
You can only 'know' something if you repeatedly test and verify it as true yourself.
That's why he said 'the answer is know'.
Very clever word play (!)
He clearly enjoys flaunting his intelligience and education by means of word play etc. far more than trying to help those without a great deal of education and busy people (such as most JW's who lurk here sometimes), to think about a subject.That tells you a lot.
Secondly, "you are not running the USA" is referring to his earlier post where he stated that only the view of good and bad held by the 'one in authority' matters.
If God exists and is the supreme authority, our view of good and bad is irrelevant because he can do whatever he wants.
I addressed that point with the 'God-the mafia boss' video, that he declined to comment on.
(For those without time to go back and watch it, the basic reasoning is that: just because we have the power to step on an ant, and kill it if we want to, it does not mean we are right to do so.
For believers to claim that God has the right to kill anything he wants to because he made everything, it is comparable to a parent saying they can hit their child or even kill it, because they brought it into the world.
That's an immoral view, as most people alive today would agree.)
Thirdly, this is from his profile..
"The information posted past present and future is to be considered viewpoint, opinion, feeling, believed. It may also be the belief, feeling or opinion of someone else and not necessarily mine or it may be hypothetical or it may be to see how others feel about a certain opinion or position but not intended to be authoritative or factual presentational or factual representational."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/users/11814/Fisherman
At least now,
anyone just joining us has some idea what's going on.
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Fisherman, what reason can you offer as a justification for God allowing animal suffering before the fall of man? -
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Anybody know what happened in this lawsuit, Frank Otuo suing the WT of Britain and an elder for defamation?
by AndersonsInfo inthis lawsuit was discussed on jwn five months ago: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/284881/brave-ex-elder-sues-over-defamation-over-fraud-claims?size=20&page=2 .
anybody know what the present disposition is in this case?.
the following link is to the actual newspaper article: .
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defender of truth
Well done Orphan Crow.
I'm surprised that not many seem interested in this, this case could start a neverending landslide of lawsuits.
If anyone can get there, please report back..
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Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
I spend a lot of time thinking of what to post, then writing it in a hopefully clear and understandable manner, and your response is: "Did, running before the fall of man, If it is a fact that pain and suffering existed, make my money grow? My answer is know" ...????
If I could charge you with 'contempt of this thread', I would do so. I'm through with this, you are wasting time and thread space. Don't know why I bothered.
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Anybody know what happened in this lawsuit, Frank Otuo suing the WT of Britain and an elder for defamation?
by AndersonsInfo inthis lawsuit was discussed on jwn five months ago: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/284881/brave-ex-elder-sues-over-defamation-over-fraud-claims?size=20&page=2 .
anybody know what the present disposition is in this case?.
the following link is to the actual newspaper article: .
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defender of truth
No problem, glad to help. Have you done a search via the TrustOnline link? I can't afford it. -
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defender of truth
ToesUp said:
"At 6:15 they state, "it's not the responsibility of a religious organization to protect children from sexual abuse by other congregation members.
They provide education to parents on the risk of sexual abuse."
'Providing education'
is the only responsibility of the organisation?
Just telling parents what to do in order to protect children, that is all they are able to do?!
Your average JW will likely accept that is all that the organisation can do.
After all, the organisation is basically just a legal structure for a literature printing corporation.
It can't control what anyone does at a local level...
But wait a minute!
What about the Elders that the organisation trains, appoints, and then tells what to do on a daily basis?
Isn't the organisation responsible for what they instruct Elders to do in these cases?
And what kind of education and instructions do they receive from the organisation, regarding child molesters?
'We will tell you who is a predator or not.
And we will tell you whether to call the police, or if you should stay silent.
Listen, obey and be blessed..'
And even with the letters from the Governing Body, or the lack of a legal necessity to report child abuse in the UK and some parts of the US... when it comes to handling such serious matters as the exploitation and harm of children, you would think that an Elder would want to warn their flock and protect them from danger.. not only spiritually, but physically.
Quote from an excellent article on the Mark Sewell case:
" A church [Watchower] spokesman said:...
“The spiritual and physical welfare of Jehovah’s Witnesses is of paramount concern to the elders who have been appointed to ‘shepherd the flock’ ."